Rumored new Sony & Nikon D-SLRs + VG-20 + NEX-7 etc

Canon T3i / 600D, 60D, T2i / 550D, 1D Mark IV, 7D, 5D Mark II.
Panasonic DMC-GH2.
Nikon D7000, D5100, D5000, D90.
chrishull3
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Rumored new Sony & Nikon D-SLRs + VG-20 + NEX-7 etc

Post by chrishull3 »

Pretty quiet on here,Well i have only just managed to get back on the site ,i have been out filming with my GH2 a bit though.
http://www.youtube.com/my_videos?feature=mhee
ignore the top one not gh2 quality.

MOD NOTE: Just renamed the thread title to reflect new content below as it has morphed.
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Stephan
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Re: Pretty quiet on the DSLR front

Post by Stephan »

Hi Chris, glad you were able to log back in!

Your link seems broken, it points to "My Videos" which... is anybody's own videos actually :-)

BTW, I thought I should mention that too - give it a try, it's nice: HOW TO: embed videos from YouTube or Vimeo into your posts for posting in the Video showcase & feedback forum.

Cheers
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Doughie
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Re: Pretty quiet on the DSLR front

Post by Doughie »

I hear rumors that there might be one or two new D-SLRs announced this month (or pehaps next). that what i've heard, could be nothing, but i think perhaps we are due a Nikon D300s successor, using the sensor from the D7000 i would think, but with the larger body and enhanced functionality. Maybe it will be called a D400 or maybe a D9000.

Also there might be a successor to the full-frame D700 coming soon. Again, maybe that will be the 'D800'. full-frame sensor 36x24mm CMOS chip. Latest sensors do seem to have reduced noise and better dynamic range.
Canon might bring out a 7D MkII sometime, or maybe that will be called a 9D or 8D or something. 5dMKII seems still to be selling so well, there seems little rush for Canon to bring out a 5DMKIII.

All just speculation really.

I am actually considering a GH2 myself Chris, mainly just for video really. I am right in thinking you have a 550D as well? I would *really* be interested in hearing your honest and unbiased opinion on what you see as the pros and cons of the GH2 vs a Canon DSLR. Someone with both is in a unique position to make a judgment. I am going to guess that you like the shallow DOF of the Canon's larger sensor better, but the ease of use, and in-shot focussing of the GH2 better (it can autofocus well during video recording unlike the SLRs).
chrishull3
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Re: Pretty quiet on the DSLR front

Post by chrishull3 »

Dougie hows things,actualy i dont have a 550D anymore when it had a few problems with the sound Amazon offerd a replacement or different make so i paid the extra for a GH2,i am no still expert so i cant tell the difference in taking stills with them but most seem to say Canons are better for stills,as far as video goes the GH2 is a lot better but to be fair the 600D replacement is better than the 550D in some ways but the PQ is the same,i dont think depth of field is much different if a lense like the 20mm 1.7 is used,i have 5 lenses the 14-140 14mm 20mm olympus 9-18mm and pana 45-200mm,there is less moire aliasing for sure and the video has more resolution/sharpness look at the film this guy made in India it says it all for an on the move travel documentary.
http://vimeo.com/26502646
another one here http://vimeo.com/24104779
Anyway all the best cheers Chris
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Doughie
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Re: Pretty quiet on the DSLR front (new Sony D-SLRs!)

Post by Doughie »

Well, how appropriate we should have this thread as .... a new Sony A77 is rumored to be announced later this month. APS-C sized sensor. Again, this is not official, but it looks real enough to me to post this. Also a new NEX-7 also supposed to be on the way.

Spec may include shooting 1080p in 24fps, 30fps, 60fps. Uses the upgraded AVCHD 2 spec meaning top bitrate of 28mbps.
That is new - previous Canons etc only shot 720p at 60fps for example. 1080 at 60fps, if true, is new. These SLR sensors tend to get a bit hot, so i think heat-management will probably be something these new cams will have to have high up on the design list. Swivelable LCD screens help, as they get warm, so its useful to be able to move them away from the main body both for shooting odd-angles but also from a heat-management side. Quite a few of the fixed LCD D-SLRs that shoot video tend to have occasional overheat issues. The swivelable-LCD ones seem not to have those probs, may or may not be coincidence.

Also this new Sony A77 it will apparently have a translucent mirror meaning you can use the viewfinder to shoot video (very unusual) and it has a brand new sensor, a little more geared to shooting video. Obviously primarily this is still a stills camera, but i am guessing that with the huge boom in people using D-SLRs to shoot video, manufacturers have shifted a bit in their design considerations.

Looks to be a real step forward. Great codec / bitrate/ new res at high frame-rates.

Also new VG-20 looks like it is happening, with i think similar specs. VG-20 will presumably be successor to VG-10 and that is a more pure-camcorder design, should be really rather nice.
Last edited by Doughie on 04 Aug 2011 18:05, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: more info
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Re: Pretty quiet on DSLR front(new Sony & Nikon DSLR &VG-20?

Post by Doughie »

OK Aug 24th (Japan? - that might be Aug 23rd in USA) is supposedly the date for announce of Sony A77 SLR, A65, NEX-7 cam, and new VG-20.

Also supposedly Nikon (more thoughts below) will be announcing cams the same day, ('D400'? 'D9000'? 'D800'?) which to me implies they will be using same sensor as Sony (I think Sony design and supply sensors for Nikon) and the sensors will be new. So i am sure Sony have a clause saying "You, Nikon, as a sensor-buying customer, will not announce your new D-SLRs using our shiny new awesome sensors until we have our Sony D-SLRs ready to go as well. We'll dictate to you the date for the announcement.".

So it looks like it's hotting up, new machinery incoming. This is all rumors so far, nothing confirmed, but there's quite a bit of 'smoke' out there about it so i think it's likely true. I would think Canon is probably more than aware, and likely has other new models prob incoming fairly soon too.

One more thought - If Sony A77 is crop-sensor APS-C, then maybe Nikon will be bringing out a new crop-sensor APS-C too, as speculated. Maybe this will be the 'D400' or a 'D9000' (successor more or less to the D300s). Either that, or a full-frame D800 (successor to full-frame D700, which have apparently had stock run-downs all over the place, potentially indicating incoming replacement model). APS-C sensor in new Sony and maybe Nikon cams rumored to be 24Megapixel which is huge considering the fairly small physical size (in D-SLRs terms - they are currently around 24mm x 16mm approx).
- If true, that would probably indicate, that Sony have made a quantum-leap in noise levels, as normally packing THAT many photo-sites onto an APS-C sensor would dramatically reduce the pixel-pitch on the sensor and this would tend to increase image-noise. I am sure they don't want image noise levels increasing compared to existing APS-C sensors, so it's logical to make the assumption that the new (alleged) Sony APS-C sensor that will (allegedly) be used in Sony A77 and Nikon-D300s replacement will bring a whole new level of low-noise per sensor photosite. Photo-site size by my APPROX calculations may be around 41% smaller photo-sensors (measured in one direction, so around HALF the area (1.4 x 1.4) for each on-sensor pixel : that sure sounds like someoone provided that as a 'specification target' to Sony engineers to me....), compared to D90 or D300S sensor. Note the D7000-sensor has a higher pixel-density than the older D90/D300S APS-C sensor (the D90/D300S sensor was around 12.2megapixel 24mm x 16mm APS-C sensor).

if true, that's a big change, new sensor design required, and this looks like it may be it. OR it's a full-frame sensor and therefore it may be the 'D800'.
To maintain (or improve??) image-noise with that much smaller on-sensor pixels is a dramatic improvement. New DSP-processing i would think plays a part in this too.

All these cams will shoot Hi-Def video, lots of 1080-res stuff, at multiple frame-rates. New sensor looks like it may have had much more of a 'video-ready' design input than normal. I would think it's an Exmor-R design, and should therefore be *very* good in low-light, hopefully new levels of low-noise at high ISO.
Last edited by Doughie on 06 Aug 2011 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fix typos, more info, clarifications etc
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Re: Pretty quiet on the DSLR front(new Sony DSLR &VG-20 rumo

Post by Doughie »

There may also be announced a Sony A920 D-SLR too, maybe with a 32Megapixel full-frame sensor. That's a very-high res. spec, if it is true. Let's see on that. Could well be the 'Exmor R' technology sensor for SLRs (Exmor R sensors have been used in Sony camcorders for a while, not sure if that tech has already been fully-implemented on SLRs yet or not, but i don't think it has).

Probable that the Nikon D4 will be announced later this month, fullframe sensor (full-frame) to replace the D3S, and a D400 APS-C sensor using a 24Mp sensor, both of these sensors designed and sourced by Sony. And maybe a Nikon D700S as well, rather than the 'D800'). Nikon wouldnt want to bring out a D800 i wouldn't think at the same time as a new D4. Better to delay the 'D800' by a little bit, to keep order book filled for the Nikon D4.

If D400 does appear in next month or two, i will take a stab that the street-price on somewhere like B&H (note: not the MSRP, but street-price) may be around US$1900-2000, based on price-differentials current and historic between other Nikon models. Again this is all speculation, and rumor for now, and as such its just my personal opinion etc.etc.
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Re: Rumored new Sony & Nikon D-SLRs + VG-20 + NEX-7 etc

Post by Doughie »

OK to continue a little my speculation on this stuff, this is just a quick update to say it's likely that a selection of big-sensor cameras of various types due to be announced in next 24-48 hours. So what you may ask, we have plenty of video-capable SLRs already. But these new machines may be bringing fairly new functionality and a high enough specification that it may give Canon some real cause for concern that 'Generation 2' of these machines has really arrived from Sony with a fairly big and significant entrance.

Very strong rumors about Sony A77 and its super hi-res sensor, translucent mirror (non-moving mirror, high still fps of around 10fps) but what this means for High-Def video is that part of the incoming light is reflected to the auto-focus sensor whilst the rest of the light hits the sensor. All the time the mirror stays fixed in a down position (NOT what Nikon and Canon machines do right now).
This will not be the first camera with a translucent mirror (Sony has at least one lower-end model already) but it *is* new in a high-end machine such as this. Should give *fast* phase-detection autofocus full-time *during* movie recording, high bitrate of H.264-based AVCHD 2.0 (28mbps, Variable bitrate codec). That is something all the Canon and Nikon D-SLRs do not do. They can only (at best) use contrast-detect autofocus during movies which is very slow really and prone to hunting and therefore 90% of people manual focus. Which is fine. I manual focus too for movie recording on SLRs and its really not that difficult once you get some practice. But it really necessitates the use of a 'loupe' to use with the LCD on the back of an SLR (pricey, not ideal, more hardware etc). It would be nice to have the *option* of fast and reliable full-time autofocus that will continue to operate during recording.
It's also rumored that sony will have similar tech coming next year in full-frame machines that really should give Canon something to chew on. (its 5D MkII has been hugely successful globally for video, somewhat to Canon's initial surprise apparently). 5D MKII has sold in huge numbers (for an SLR) and has become something of a cult machine.

Also 16-50mm f2.8 (allegedly, hopefully not an f4 max. aperture) zoom lens announced at same time, as well as VG20, NEX-7 and really a whole gamut of new hardware, lenses, camera, adaptors, EVFs etc. Nikon also i think will announce same day a couple of new SLR's. Nikon use sensors that are developed and produced by Sony for them, although they are not too keen to admit that.

Personally, i am not sure i wouldnt have preferred a lower-res sensor than the allegeed 24Megapixel APS-C sized sensor. those are going to be very small photo-sites. I am sure it will be good, but i personally would have preferred maybe 12 - 18megapixels and even better low-light noise levels. We will see what noise levels are like at higher ISO's with these new machines. Also diffraction softening may become an issue at smaller apertures of f11, f16, f22 due to the super small photo-sites.

Anyway, exciting times it seems for big-sensor machines, these new machines *may* largely eliminate the moiré and aliasing problems that existing technology SLRs used for video purposes almost all have.
Panasonic GH2 is notable as one existing camera that does not have the moiré and aliasing issues (not actually an SLR, and neither are, technically, are the new sony cameras either, as the 'R" in SLR refers to mirror-reflex and the new Sony's mirror does not reflex (move) at all).

These new large-sensor cameras, may go a step closer to being easier to use than existing video-capable SLRs principally due to the novel functionality of having full-time phase-detection autofocus during recording. That in itself would be quite something, and also the bitrate and codec upgrades and all the other alleged functionality does point to this being really quite a serious assault by Sony on the video-capable SLR market, currently dominated really by Canon, with Nikon and Panasonic etc in a largely supporting role thus far.

Ho hum, let's see. It could be all smoke and mirrors.... (!)
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Stephan
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Re: Rumored new Sony & Nikon D-SLRs + VG-20 + NEX-7 etc

Post by Stephan »

I didn't even know about phase-detection autofocus. Wow, this is a tiny bit over my head :-)
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