Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Recording audio content: microphones, on-camera audio vs. stand-alone recorders, recommendations on techniques and audio-recording hardware.
Nounours18200
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Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Nounours18200 » 11 Jul 2010 21:06

Hi guys,

I had posted on the previous HDV Info Forums the detailed config of my equipment but it seems that the messages cannot be accessed any longer (?).

I use a Sony HC1 + Beachtek DXA-6vu + a BEYER MCE-72 microphone (the MCE-2 feeds the Beachtek and then the Beachtek is plugged in the HC1 input jack).

The pb is that I often (*) have audio dropouts (1 or 2 seconds max), and I do not know the faulty device amongst the HC1, the beachtek or the MCE-72...

(*):Let say that during a 40mn concert, I get 2 or 3 dropouts.

Do you have any idea on how to proceed to identify the faulty device in a non time-consuming approach ?...
It is a big pb for me because except these dropouts, the sound quality is really outstanding!

Thanks

halfpipe
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Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by halfpipe » 12 Jul 2010 16:36

I have the same issue with an fx7
If you don't use anything except the onboard mic do you still get the dropouts?

Nounours18200
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Location:France

Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Nounours18200 » 13 Jul 2010 19:30

Originally, no, but I have not been using the onboard mic for a Looong time !

I suppose that I have to test it : maybe I will record my TV for an hour, just to check if I get a few dropouts....

Interesting to ear that your FX-7 has the same issue: do you have a way to investigate if there would be a generic problem with the Sonys ???

If I do not find a way to fix this pb, I will change for another camcorder, maybe a Panasonic TM-700 ?

halfpipe
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Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by halfpipe » 14 Jul 2010 18:47

If qec record is enabled on the fx7 both audio and video dropouts will occur
I also have a pair of HC1s but never had the drop out problem. only the fx7 in qec record mode
It may have something to do with starting and stopping the tape while recording. leave it recording til the end of the tape? coming out of standby mode might be the problem
Are you on manual or auto levels when the problem occurs?
Maybe the camcorder is clipping due to extreme spike in audio

Nounours18200
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Location:France

Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Nounours18200 » 14 Jul 2010 19:44

I also have a pair of HC1s but never had the drop out problem. only the fx7 in qec record mode
What do you mean by "geq record mode" ?
It may have something to do with starting and stopping the tape while recording. leave it recording til the end of the tape? coming out of standby mode might be the problem
I am not sure to understand what you mean by "standby mode": the HC1 records or does not record in my opinion, as there is a general rotating "mode" selector to choose between "play/memory / tape " and a "rec start /stop" button, so I do not see what you mean by "standby" but I can be wrong.
The dropouts seem to occur at any time during recording, not after a particular action. In addition, I use to record all along a concert, without stopping the recording, in order to get a full recording in only one session.
Are you on manual or auto levels when the problem occurs?
I am always on Manual levels, because I use an external mic (the excellent BEYER MCE-72) feeding a Beachtek DXA-6vu, and the output of the Beachtek goes in the HC1 mic input.
Maybe the camcorder is clipping due to extreme spike in audio
This can be a reason, because most of the time the audio level is high during a concert, BUT the mic goes into the Beachtek and the HC1 is fed by the Beachtek. Maybe I should try to reduce the output level of the Beachtek, even if I am not sure that the Beachtek saturates the HC1 input... ?
I nevertheless believe that this could be a reason, because before I used the external mic+Beachtek, I noticed that the HC1 onboard mic did not accept the concerts high audio level and they were very often saturated, but without any dropout.

Do these additional informations help you ?

Nounours18200
Posts:9
Joined:11 Jul 2010 20:33
Location:France

Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Nounours18200 » 14 Jul 2010 22:46

In order to bring new elements to this discussion, I have found these topics:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t143699.html

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/142/865251

showing that this problem seems to be common in the Sony camcorders world....

Nounours18200
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Joined:11 Jul 2010 20:33
Location:France

Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Nounours18200 » 27 Feb 2011 13:44

showing that this problem seems to be common in the Sony camcorders world....
You seem to be right, unfortunately.... I have found no solution to the drop out problem on my HC1, and I suspect that changing the mechanism would cost a lot compared to the value of a new camcorder (and it is not sure that this solve the pb...).

As I mainly record concerts and shows, my next cam would probably not be a Sony because audio is key for me...

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Stephan
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Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Stephan » 28 Feb 2011 00:13

You say you were shooting with an HDR-HC1... Since 2004, HDV cameras have been known to suffer from occasional recording drop-outs due to MPEG2 long GOP. This is a known limitation, and shooting on tape with an HDV cam means that you're ready to accept a few drop-outs in every tape -- or else you need to choose another recording technology.
Nounours18200 wrote:audio is key for me...
If you need to shoot in difficult / demanding situations, why not take it to a whole new level and get a dedicated recorder? Like the Zoom H4n for instance. Then you use onboard audio for sync in post.

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Doughie
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Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Doughie » 28 Feb 2011 02:15

Stephan wrote: Like the Zoom H4n for instance. Then you use onboard audio for sync in post.
I myself own and use the Zoom H4N, very useful piece of equipment. I have done recordings both from the on-board condenser mics (X-Y 90degree configuration) and also recordings via external mics too on same equipment.

ps. Nounours18200.... am i right in recognising your name from the SonyHDVinfo.com board?? Certainly looks familiar to me... either way.. welcome!!

Nounours18200
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Joined:11 Jul 2010 20:33
Location:France

Re: Finding the cause of audio drop-outs ...

Post by Nounours18200 » 28 Feb 2011 22:44

ps. Nounours18200.... am i right in recognising your name from the SonyHDVinfo.com board?? Certainly looks familiar to me... either way.. welcome!!
Yes , correct, I am the same person !
I myself own and use the Zoom H4N, very useful piece of equipment. I have done recordings both from the on-board condenser mics (X-Y 90degree configuration) and also recordings via external mics too on same equipment.
I also own a Zoom H4N that I have bought mainly for recording the sound with my Canon 7D camera...

With my Sony HC1, I use an external BEYER DYNAMIC MCE-72-PV microphone (an excellent mic that is able to handle very high sound levels faced during the live concerts, without any saturation) connected to a Beachtek DXA-6vu to provide the 48V phantom power supply.

I could use the Zoom H4n instead of the Beachtek, and connect the external mic to the Zoom 4Hn : this looks like an excellent idea ! The ONLY question is: will the Zoom 4Hn provide enough voltage to correctly power the external MCE72PV microphone ?? I am not sure it can provide 48V, maybe it only provides 18V , and if so, I am not sure that the MCE72PV will work correctly ?

Does some of you know what is the voltage provided by the ZOOM 4Hn phantom power supply ?

Thanks!

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